In October 1983 and January 1984 a major show of graffiti art was exhibited at two museums in the Netherlands. The first museum to show the work was the Museum Boymans-van Beuningen in Rotterdam, followed by the Groninger Museum in Groningen. The exhibit featured paintings by Blade, Dondi, Seen, Zephyr, Crash, Futura, Quik, Noc 167, Lee and Rammelzee. The following is a brief but informative interview excerpted from the show's catalog. It has been edited for length only.

INTERVIEW WITH ZEPHYR AND FUTURA BY JAN VAN ADRICHEM. INTERVIEW WAS CONDUCTED IN AMSTERDAM IN 1983.

Futura 2000 and Zephyr are exponents of two widely different graffiti generations. Futura was first heard of in '71 when graffiti was little more than simple tags. Zephyr made his debut in '77, not such a good year, according to him: "Graffiti had just passed a climax; the time of the spectacular writing groups such as The Fabulous Five with Lee was over. Less prominent groups appeared on the scene, and trains were cleaned more thoroughly."

Zephyr's work is conspicuous for its capricious, crowded design. He makes copious use of traditional letter styles such as "wild style," and his figures bring tattoo parlors to mind-his paintings are populated by snakes, dragons and the odd stars and stripes. Zephyr's chief interest seems to be in the more conventional, steady forms of graffiti.

Futura, on the other hand, does abstract work. He sprays, with highly controlled movements, elegant mobile lines in the shape of stars and circles onto mostly empty surfaces. Although the pictures seem to be abstract, figuration does play a certain part. Futura calls on a vast repertory of small male figures, landscapes and objects, mainly based on oval constructions. They are introduced in his paintings on the basis of everyday occurrences, but the accent is never narrative.

Q: Where did your names come from?

ZEPHYR: "Zephyr" came from an old brand of skateboards. It just stuck in my head.

FUTURA: "Futura" is the name of a typeface. I discovered it at school, when I learned type-setting.

Q: What's the difference between graffiti artists and graffiti writers?

ZEPHYR: At the moment, graffiti writers who have moved over to the art world are getting a lot of attention. But the heart of graffiti is in the motivation of the ones that keep the trains covered. That's where the real art is being made.

Q: Which do you consider yourselves:

ZEPHYR: I consider myself more of a graffiti writer than a graffiti artist. The kids are the backbone of graffiti, but there are a lot of other possibilities. How far can you go? How far can you take it? Look at Futura. Look how far he's taken it. He's fulfilled the prophecy of his tag-he's revolutionizing the concept of what a graffiti artist is.

Q: Can you explain your stylistic development?

FUTURA: I developed a certain style because I wanted to be different. My real development began during the Summer of 1980 when Zephyr and I did the Esses Studio project. That's when I met Dondi, Crash, Lee, Revolt and Tracy 168. At the studio I saw everyone doing canvases, and I thought "Wow! I've got a chance. This is what I want." But I didn't want to do it like everyone else, I wanted to apply my own style. During the workshop I did my first painting. I was so unhappy with it, I just wanted to give up. At the very end, when everyone else had finished their paintings, I did another. Right after that I just began playing with paint, and it worked. That experience really got me going.

ZEPHYR: After the studio everyone went crazy on canvas. In '80-'81 we got some press, the cover of The Village Voice. Then all the big-wigs started coming around. The art world jumped on us.

Q: "Do you use sketches?"

ZEPHYR: On the trains I've worked with sketches a lot, but less these days. I have notebooks, but they're only details, you won't find the whole design. I have standard alphabets I use. They differ from each other. I twist and bend the letters, but the basic form stays the same. I don't change my style very much. I have no problems with repetition. It irritates people-but they remember your name.

FUTURA: I just make mental sketches. I have them in my head. I have "Futura icons" like ovals and circles. I pick up my ideas in the streets. I have my icons and I throw them in with the ideas that I get when I see something happening. That's how my images come into existence. I never put a sketch down to a painting, because I never know what I'm really gonna paint. Sometimes I just think of the color. I have to start painting to see where it's gonna take me. The characters are still changing, I'm still developing my technique.